Talk:Time Travel
This article's purpose I don't understand the significance or importance of this entire page. Yes time travel is an important aspect of Awakening's story line but most of this is explained on each of the character's pages, the chapter/paralogue/xenologue pages, and on various other pages. Do we need this page?—Nauibotics (talk) 21:22, December 18, 2016 (UTC) *I do feel that it is a necessary page to place on here. This is the first case of time travel being used, and has been used a slight amout in Fates. However, no fully given explanation has been performed. There's been characters mentioning it, but never in depth. How it occurred, how it functions, its never fully given, and there's a lot of plotholes given in its place if they just look in place, and would need to piece lots of things together just to try and make sense of it. A time travel page that explains some of these things helps inform readers the aspects that is the central theme so that they are aware of inconsistencies. And having it in for now at least gives the opportunity to have a page that can be used for future purposes if later games try and use time travel as well, and I have a feeling this might just happen. Hope I made sense in trying to convery my point in the necesity of having this page. If my argument failed and the page is truly pointless, then you can remove it. Omegaxis1 (talk) 21:33, December 18, 2016 (UTC) ::but if it's an unexplained phenomenon, that belongs on the Fire Emblem Plot Holes, Goofs and Unexplained Events page. Besides I fail to see why explaining the inconsistencies since they are not so blaring that it ruins the plot. Plus, Awakening's focus is more on destiny and changing fate, not time traveling since in the main game, none of the chapters involve the characters time traveling for that chapter, hence it is not the central theme. It really is pretty simple in my opinion. But for now, in terms of all Fire Emblem games, Awakening does use it, but time travel is only important to explain why children characters appear and to serve as a catalyst for the changed time line. The Awakening page itself explains the story pretty well and the importance of Lucina and the children's time travel and is very clear. Fates, on the other hand, uses NO time traveling. Owain/Odin, Inigo/Laslow, and Severa/Selena go to a parallel dimension similar to the Outrealms in Awakening. Sure Anankos MENTIONS it for their origins, but it is not used in the story. The only thing Fates uses is multi-verse and the Outrealm sort of shenanigans for the Before Awakening DLC.—Nauibotics (talk) 21:47, December 18, 2016 (UTC) :*See, that's the thing. Its implied, hinted, and slightly mentioned, but never outright explained. So it cannot go directly into the plot holes and such. And while it does focus on changing destiny, time travel was still held a large impact to events later on, from Emmeryn's assassination failing, to Grima reviving Validar, to Grima reviving itself, because it was the future Grima entering the past. Also, destiny was changed was literally all because Grima's misconception on time travel. He went back in time believing that if the past is changed, he would cease to exist. Because he went back in time, he ultimately created the event where there are 2 Grima, and thus made an opportunity where he can be killed completely, and it was because of Robin that the Awakening was even able to be performed because Grima's memories of the events gave Robin the hint on how to avert it. However, the issue is that it was never completely explained on exactly what happened between the two timelines, from how Lucina could learn swordplay if in the game we see that she's still mostly an infant, even moreso when we see that we ended up getting into the final confrontation with Validar as well. The butterfly motif for Lucina's mask is more or less the sign that that butterfly effect comes into play, but its still not mentioned directly. Also, I'm glad that you liked the page with Awakening's plot. Took a bit to write so I didn't go into complete details, but instead just gave enough fo a detailed summary. Anyways, the time travel mechanic is still not fully explained in the pages, but just hinted at. However, I guess the time travel page is still premature for the wiki at this moment, because there are just not enough direct explanations in the stories, just hints and mentions, but still not enough to make a detailed page. As for Before Awakening, well, that can go either way, because of how its more of just a tease for fans that liked Awakening and all. Omegaxis1 (talk) 22:25, December 18, 2016 (UTC) :::Okay, but time travel in Awakening has a pretty simple explanation, Naga allowed the children to travel to the past due to divine intervention, for a better lack of words. It's not uncommon for a deity to do such things in any narrative with little explanation. And yes, Grima going into the past leads to his downfall, but the concept of time travel itself is not "central". Destiny/Predetermined Fate is a completely separate concept from Time Travel. Sure butterfly effect is perfectly in full play with this storyline, I agree to that, but I think that was a stylistic choice as much as it was intentional. I'm not saying the page is "wrong", just a bit questionable in importance to warrant a full page dedicated to itself. Mind you, we've had worse pages made in the past like a "Blue Hair" page for someone who felt that Blue hair was an integral part of the Fire Emblem franchise. Plus, DLC chapters are up for debate for "canon" for Awakening and Fates. We do mention it on their pages, but most of us, both the wiki and the fandom, take DLC chapters with a grain of salt as they are side stories outside of the main plot. Before Awakening is definitely more focused on multi-verse travel rather than time travel, even though Odin, Laslow, and Selena in these would technically fit both.—Nauibotics (talk) 22:38, December 18, 2016 (UTC) :::::Lol XD Wow, really? Sure, blue hair is used a lot, but its not THAT big of a deal. Lucina actually stated that Naga feared Grima's arrival and had a ritual to prepare for time travel, likely as a last resort, cause as Anankos stated, meddling in the affairs of time is a grave taboo. But thing was, we only learn about Naga's time travel abilities from other people, not from Naga herself. Okay, maybe "central" is too strong of a word to use, but it is a major factor to the story in the end. And while you may have a point that maybe time travel didn't need a complete detailed page about it, but I personally felt that it was still important enough to at least get its own page. And yeah, I was actually told that about the DLC things being debated on canon when I wrote a bit of an info about the Harvest Scramble and the lines being canon because it was mentioned in support conversations with the Awakening kids in Fates. But for the case on some DLC, Morgan's epilogue ending actually is strongly tied to the Future Past timeline because of some DLC conversations, which I mentioned in Morgan's trivia section. The multiple timelines ultimately intersect through time travel. So when I tied all those things together, I just felt that there should be a page. Mind you, the extreme detail I put in was just a habit of mine. I get carried away. Omegaxis1 (talk) 22:49, December 18, 2016 (UTC) :::::I did find it an interesting read. It's just not really THAT important of a mechanic in the story as is say the Awakening ritual. I mean, the plot itself just kinda glazes over this pretty quickly, even though it has huge bearing on the plot itself overall. If the game itself put more emphasis on the importance of the concept, rather than just fans like you and me seeing the subtle importance of it, I would be all for this page. But, given how Awakening itself made it pretty unimportant in the grand scheme of the plot itself, I find this page to be interesting, but not needed. As for Future Past, well, it is merely a speculation and mind you, it was written well after Awakening was released. Those were written after the game was shipped, unlike the champions of lore which was made before it was shipped. The Future Past and Scramble Maps were made post production, meaning that they made a new branch of information within itself in just these later DLC installments. While there is strong implications that the Morgan recruited is from the Future Past Timeline there are other reasons that go against it. For one, Morgan does not have her hair color of her mother in Future Past, but the child of the Male Avatar will. Two, the existence of the two Morgans also poses a few problems, as that could mean that they are Morgans from another timeline, meaning that this is a double time travel paradox, leading to further speculation as to where they come from or if they are even the same Morgan who can be recruited. its a very complex issues that is one of Awakening and the Future Past's issues. The game and plot does not treat it seriously to make full sense, but on the surface, it is basic and not quite as important as other important plot points and issues.—Nauibotics (talk) 00:09, December 19, 2016 (UTC)] :::::Yes, after thinking about it, you are right. Awakening did introduce and use time travel as a mechanic, but ultimately this wasn't like a game like Radiant Historia, where the character has to jump through points in time through two timelines and all that. So overall, will the page have to be taken down? I don't mind if it is, cause this was just a small thing. It isn't like the one with the Awakening page for the plot, the Medeus, Katarina, Kris, and such pages. I worked harder on those pages than this one. That is true, which goes also into Fates with the Hiers of Fate that only explains how Owain and the others got there. Though that might very well be the ONLY thing that might very well be "canon" for a DLC, but even then, it wasn't that necessary cause it played no role to the main story in the end. As for the time paradox, there are multiple theories for that one, as Morgan's hair color is shadowed so no one can define what their hair color is. And there being two goes for the theory that they are either from different worlds, or are twins. But of course, those are just simply theories. Add further by how Robin might just be the same Mark from Blazing Sword (or at least a reincarnation), and if not him, then Morgan (who is Marc in japanese) might be it. Actually, I would say that its not just this game, but Fire Emblem itself does this a lot, and they leave a lot of things so vague that you can never make a clear answer without it sounding like pure conjecture. Omegaxis1 (talk) 00:30, December 19, 2016 (UTC)